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Duane in Indy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: FRAM
    Posted: February-06-2018 at 7:33pm
Knowing that this is one of Petes favorite topics I thought I would add some insight.   The age old controversy of what oil filter to run brings to mind a story I will share. My first Lycoming airplane engine, a 290 c.i. flat opposed air cooled four cylinder, had NO oil filter at all. It came with a screen strainer that you would rinse out at every oil change Guess it was supposed to catch the bigger chunks. I replaced the strainer with a filter adapter. Airplanes can't just pull over if there is an engine failure. Kinda makes ya think. If we change our oil and filters in the boats at 50 hour intervals (some a lot less) then that equates to about around 1500 miles if we figure 30 mph. Is the brand really that important?? I know I try to buy the best filter I can but in reality is it that important in our environment?   
Too much to think about when I can't spend all my spare time on the water.   Come on spring.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-06-2018 at 7:38pm
Duane,
Prior to about the 60's, very few marine engines had filters ether.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-06-2018 at 7:46pm
Pete, Also before detergent type oil too. The old oils did not suspend the gunk. It just settled into all the low points. Now it suspends and gets trapped in the filter. Or at least that is the theory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-06-2018 at 9:29pm
Factory aircooled VW's don't have filters either but used a screen like the Lycoming. Common practice was to add a remote full flow spin on with fittings on a replacement oil pump cover. Later on spin on filters adapters were cast right on to the pumps cover. Small Honda motorcycles have centrifugal spinners on the crank to feed it with "clean" oil,the rest of the engine uses a screen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-06-2018 at 10:02pm
My take on this is the short change interval that most of us use on our boats does not relate to the quality of oil filter we use. I don't see it as clean oil being filtered for the first 30-50 hours then oil becomes dirty and needs a better quality filter with higher hours. To me, from first startup after an oil change, I want a high quality filter with uniform filter media, flow, proper construction to prevent any collapse of media, etc.

I'm not saying we have to use Mobil 1 or K&N or Baldwins to have success, but if I question a brand's construction quality, or don't know who makes a no-name brand, I stay away from them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonny Quest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 12:18am
For many of us, the boat maintenance is a "labor of love". My engine doesn't need a K&N oil filter and VR-1 oil, but I LIKE using it. I also LIKE changing out my spark plugs and raw water impeller every couple of years. Small dollar$ but high on the satisfaction scale.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 5:52am
Ahhhhhhhh the old reliable oil Filter discussion..... Winter has definitely set in. Come on Spring!!

74Wind says...."Morfoot...He can ski. He can wakeboard. He can cook chicken. He can create his own self-named beverage. And..can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 6:23am
Spoken like a true Southerner. These guys have got a lot of bench boating to do yet. With the temps Pete has spring got nothing to do with it,he won't be out til July. That saves on impellers which will be the topic for next month. It's going to be a long winter,stay tuned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smithfamily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 6:54am
Originally posted by Morfoot Morfoot wrote:

Ahhhhhhhh the old reliable oil Filter discussion..... Winter has definitely set in. Come on Spring!!


Haha! Bingo!
I may be mistaken, but I recall someone saying that they liked the orange color of the FRAM, matched his PROMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Gary S Gary S wrote:

With the temps Pete has spring got nothing to do with it,he won't be out til July.

-8 currently.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 7:50am
I used a purolator on MILs riding lawn mower (Kohler engine). The next change I noticed it was empty inside! The bypass valve must have been stuck open the whole time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 7:50am
That reminds me I have to get ice I do miss home,I don't miss the cold and the snow. Sometimes after it rains I towel dry the drive. It makes me feel like I have utterly wasted time on nothing,much like when you shovel snow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 7:58am
I think it's rather amusing that Fram (gets bad mouthed all the time on CCF) and Autolite (gets good press all the time on CCF) are both part of the Fram Group.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 8:08am
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

I think it's rather amusing that Fram (gets bad mouthed all the time on CCF) and Autolite (gets good press all the time on CCF) are both part of the Fram Group.


Fram is all we run on the Funny car.   It's all that will hold up.    Maybe cause we have around 200psi of 80 weight oil. And we still blacken the bearings. Five gallons of oil only lasts 5 seconds (under load) and then we pitch it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 8:20am
I used Fram filters for years until NAPA started putting theirs and Fram's dissected filters on their counters. Can't say I ever had a problem with a Fram filter though and some of my trucks went well over 200k and still had strong engines when I got rid of them. Great marketing on NAPA's part to steer people away from Fram.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 8:43am
It's like every other argument out there, there will never be total agreement.

Just to give another example

The old Ginger or Mary Ann argument

Somebody like Pete would probably have to be different and vote for Mrs. Howell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 9:03am
Wait, engines have oil filters?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 9:04am
You only need them if you start the engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moody Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 9:42am
Ginger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 1:43pm
Fram Filter is likely all that is needed in most cases. I used them for years on and off.   
Cutting open a filter and looking at it does nothing.   I suspect a flow test new and used along with particulate test of the oil after use is about the only real test.   
My Harleys I use Amsoil 20/50 along with Amsoil filter, forget who makes them but they are believed to be very good.   I also use the same on vehicles.   

Guy that built the nautique engine for me said run Rotella and gave be a case of orange frams that he had left over.

On my last boat with a pair of big blocks we used Napa Gold which is Wix.   Will likely use Napa gold on the Nautique when I do oil again.   

Bottom line. Oil and filters are cheep insurance and various brands make us feel better so use what you want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

I

The old Ginger or Mary Ann argument

Somebody like Pete would probably have to be different and vote for Mrs. Howell


I too vote Mrs. Howell. She is old and rich. If you can hang in there a few years, Mr. Howell's Millions is now yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2018 at 12:50am
you're supposed to change the oil?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2018 at 7:50am
Jbear - Just leave it in he engine & it will change itself - into black goo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2018 at 11:16am
John uses the planet nautique method Chris, don't change the oil change the boat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2018 at 12:30pm
I knew a guy that always bought new cars, ever 20K miles. Never changed the oil in any of them. He said they were running fine when he traded them in . . .
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2018 at 12:31pm
We all know (or should) that Eddie does all of Jbears engine work including Oil changes. John isn't allowed to touch tools when it comes to boat maintenance.

74Wind says...."Morfoot...He can ski. He can wakeboard. He can cook chicken. He can create his own self-named beverage. And..can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosconole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2018 at 10:13pm
Amsoil is good 25,000 miles, not sure about that with a paper Fram filter though. NAPA gold is same as WIX. Amsoil filter is really soild metal casing in comparison you can wrench the hec out of it and never ever put a dent in it if your worried about a puncture ( I've tried) . Most of the better ones also have a anti drain back feature that does help on start up. Its all just $.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2018 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by rosconole rosconole wrote:

Amsoil is good 25,000 miles, not sure about that with a paper Fram filter though.

I would have suspected that oil life would have been a function of how much the engine is wearing rather based solely on the quality of the oil itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosconole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2018 at 10:46pm
Not exactly, you don't change it or are in an extreme environment where you introduce dust or alot of moisture and/ or take it to periscope depth wear won't matter a bit. The quality of the oil and detergent qualities of it do help. But wear doesn't really come into play unless you let it run low or contaminate it(fuel or water) or run it hard on start up. Ring lands will probably wear out before the bearings so you won't see a ton of wear, unless it craps a lifter or valve then you'll be wishing you put that paddle in the boat. You can send in your own snake oil and have it analyzed for metals its pretty interesting what they find.

Many of the gas station private label oils are total junk and I wouldn't oil an irrigation sprinkler with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2018 at 7:38am
I used to run Amsoil in my trucks and would run it to 15k, but after awhile I noticed my oil pressure started to drop around 10K due to the filter clogging. I now use Mobil 1 and change it at 10K. If I have to go in for a filter change, I might as well change the oil and use something less expensive.
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