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TWC Sport owners

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Grand Poobah
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    Posted: September-06-2017 at 7:45pm
Due to the kids wanting to bring friends along on day trips, I am now on the hunt for a sport. I'm looking for a '99 ish year. I prefer the '99 graphics and dash over the 2000 N swoosh.
I believe I'd prefer the TSC hull as I am not into wakeboarding but the kids are starting to enjoy it, but I'm seeing that most of the sports in that year have the internal ballast and I'm assuming with the ballast comes the TWC hull.
My question is... How is the ski wake on the TWC sport hull? I'm not talking pro course wakes but I have friends that do ski aggressively as do I when I have the chance.
It would be nice if the TWC with ballast could do both...opinions appreciated.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sport1999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-06-2017 at 8:47pm
Sounds like your looking for something with the ability to put out a little more wake and still slalom. If so, I wouldn't rule out the TSC hull. The TSC puts out a great wake with some weight in the back and slaloms much better over the TWC. The internal ballast is okay, but if you can find one without it's probably best. You can fit a nice 800lb fat sac in the trunk and fill up on demand. You also gain storage space, rather than have the old hard tanks back there.

I also like the 98 and 99 variety, too. Find one with an FCT2 tower if possible.
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Grand Poobah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-06-2017 at 9:13pm
Thanks
I believe I'd want the TSC but it seems most I've looked at are the TWC with ballast that's why I was wondering how the ski wake is on the TWC hull.
The little ones aren't and probably won't be for quite a while to the point where wake size and shape matter so I'd rather the TSC but they seem to be hard to find in a sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-06-2017 at 9:23pm
The TWC hull and the TSC hull are much different, what you give up in slalom with a TWC is not worth what you get back for wakeboard imo. The slalom wake on the TSC is very good for it's size, keep it light, and it will only be a little worse then your NWZ.
Don't worry about ballast, unweighted wake on the sport should be more then enough to get your girls doing spins and flips.

The TWC hull is not good for slalom, it has 4 wakes at that speed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-06-2017 at 9:59pm
Some clarification...
TWC = Pro Air <--do not believe any Sports got the TWC hull
Sport = Air <--ballast certainly an option on the Air

The sport never got the TSC hull, despite the little stickers CC stuck on them. Hull is largely the same as the 93-97 Sport, which is based on the NWZ.

Air/Sport is much more common than the Pro Air. Kevin has skied the Pro Air, recall him saying it was passable. Go Sport if you can, but if you stumble across a really nice TWC at a great price, give it some consideration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewy2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 4:48am
Yep Tim is all over it as usual.

Paul there is a lot of the TSC hulls with the factory ballast they are stickered as Air Nautique's. The Pro Air was the only Sport/Air with the TWC hull. The TSC decal at the time on the Sport was more of a marketing exercise. Same hull basically as the 93-97 Sport and the rear mount Super Sport. That morphed into the Super Air Nautique SAN.

There was a small change to the hull in 98 to improve the slalom wake discussed in this thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 11:22am
Ok thanks everyone I think I understand the hull situation and also learned something additional.
What I learned after reading posts from as far back as 2010 is that current Sport owners must think there is gold hidden somewhere in these boats. Prices now are as much if not more than what they were asking back then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 11:47am
Every year the new boats go up in price,new ones like that not even being built. Go and get a G you know you want one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 11:51am
The hard tanks sure are a waste of space. Your kids don't need ballast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

The hard tanks sure are a waste of space. Your kids don't need ballast.

Yes I know this and agree but most of the 99-00 sports I've seen for sale have them.

Gary this is true but these boats are closing in on 20 years old now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 11:57am
The hard tanks in these boat are pretty much useless. A bag provides better ballast if/when needed, and you have lot more storage when not using the ballast. At over 30, I don't see a lot of difference in ski wake TWC or regular hull. But, under 30, the TWC is not as good for skiing, IMO.

My boat is a V-Drive, But probably worth double what it was right after the economy took a poop a few years back.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 11:58am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

The hard tanks sure are a waste of space. Your kids don't need ballast.

Yes I know this and agree but most of the 99-00 sports I've seen for sale have them.

Gary this is true but these boats are closing in on 20 years old now.


Pretty easy to take them out. Can use the pumps into a bag, or just plug the hoses and shut the seacock.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2017 at 12:26pm
Yep, and then you are left with a partially finished trunk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faceplant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2017 at 8:45pm
Just out of curiosity , why are the hard tanks pretty much useless ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkhallpass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2017 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Faceplant Faceplant wrote:

Just out of curiosity , why are the hard tanks pretty much useless ?


As to the early versions of hard tank in a Nautique, they didn't provide enough ballast to make much difference for a wakeboarder. They take up more room than a soft bag, full, or empty. When empty they are taking up valuable storage space. The pump systems were not very good.

I don't remember the exact specs, but it was something like 275 lbs in a Ski Nautique and 400 lbs in a sport Nautique. Might make a difference for trick skiing, but not for wakeboarding. You'd do better with a couple of big friends in the back seat, at least you can move them around.

Also, on the early tanks, you had to fill both at the same time. You could not fill just left or right.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faceplant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-08-2017 at 11:02pm
Yeah 400 lbs is not a lot of ballast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2017 at 12:13am
Originally posted by Faceplant Faceplant wrote:

Just out of curiosity , why are the hard tanks pretty much useless ?


Another issue are the controls under or near the helm that you use to fill and dump the hard tanks. You have to consider that the late 90's were the first ever mass marketed ballast boats. Over the years great improvements have been made to those controls. From what I have read on Planet Nautique, they were just plastic and a bad design. Basically, a handle is pulling a cable to a valve or seacock in the back of the boat. They can be problematic. Jeff Newton of PN (PN Site Owner and CCFAN Member) did a nice DYI post about upgrading that system on a late 90's or early 2000 210, I believe it was. He basically, replaced that hardware with Industrial grade valves and controls. This can be found on PN. I did not want to hear my wife complain about using a system that did not work properly.

When I was looking for a Sport or Air Nautique, Direct Drive boat over two years ago, I was advised to lean toward the sport for the big trunk storage. I was also warned about the hard tanks being too small to do a lot of good. For me, it came down to condition, condition, condition and I ended up with a Sport from the Pittsburg, PA area.

The FCT 2 is also the way to go vs the FCT 1 tower in my opinion. The FCT 1 was basically the first tower. They quickly got better in design and function. If you are willing to wait and willing to travel they seem to come available from time to time on the used market. They seem to mostly poop up in Florida. My Sport came without a tower but it was indeed an option in 2002. Luckily, with help from Air 206 (Steve K) and Quinner, I found on in Boston very quickly. I had to get it powder coated from gray to black to match my windshield and boat.   I drove from Charlotte to Boston to pick it up the weekend after I drove to Pittsburg to get the boat.

My girls can jump the entire wake with no ballast at all. My oldest daughter who is 20 mainly wake boards . My youngest daughter, 16 was a wake boarder but now is a skier. She has not wake boarded in almost two summers now. The boat gives you options. .

One of,my wish list items for this winter is to mount a reversible ballast pump in the floor and plumb in a 800 or 900 lb fat sack in the trunk. This is just to make the boat complete to me. We will likely not use it for boarding but we might use it for surfing.

Each year I use my 2002 Sport, I love it more. Basically, the only difference in a Sport and a Air Nautique (Direct Drive) is the decals and the hard tanks. Also, sometimes the Airs had the taller pylons which are also nice.

New Dimension builds a great FCT II tower near Knoxville TNN. They can powder coat, add board racks and install speaker wire in the tower for you if needed. They also install for a insanely low price. However, the tower is not cheap, but the quality is great.

Things to consider.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2017 at 9:15am
The factory trick tank on my 206 is 200 lbs, tanks in the Sport/Air (2) are 200lbs each and can be filled seperately. I prefer the convienience of just turning a couple valves and a switch or 2 to fill/empty, Factory helm valves don't work great but they work, closing the seacock in the bilge was req'd to tottally stop the water flow.

Certainly can see where no tanks would give you back a ton of storage space however if you have bags in there wouldn't you need to remove everything on the bags before filling them up??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald80SN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2017 at 10:20am
Originally posted by quinner quinner wrote:

Wouldn't you need to remove everything on the bags before filling them up??


Chis,

Yes, you would need to remove the Junk In The Trunk to fill the Old Bag. .

We just do not wake board much and I have access to surf boats for my kids, so the bag would likely not get used much and the junk would stay in the trunk. A fat sack most likely not even 100% full would take up the entire trunk. I am guessing you can only fill the bag to 80 or 90% it seems I was told several years ago.

A big girl works nicely too

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sport1999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2017 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Donald80SN Donald80SN wrote:



One of,my wish list items for this winter is to mount a reversible ballast pump in the floor and plumb in a 800 or 900 lb fat sack in the trunk. This is just to make the boat complete to me. We will likely not use it for boarding but we might use it for surfing.


Not to side track this thread, but I added reversible pumps with switches a few months ago. I can't tell you how nice it is to fill up instantly. It's really one of those convenience features that's well worth the time and money. Right up there with perfect pass. A few good tutorials on PN.

https://www.buywake.com/straight-line-sumo-max-800-long-black-ballast-bag?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIteiP9cKY1gIVWD2BCh0sZggxEAkYAiABEgJe7fD_BwE

Also, the straight line max sumo 800 long fits perfect in the trunk. Just a slight buldging, but great to have only one sac back there. I throw all my gear on top and no issues so far.

Many nice looking Sports for $15k or less. I'd say spend a premium and get the nicest one you can find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Faceplant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-09-2017 at 9:10pm
There is that 2000 Air in the for sale section that looks very appealing .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-10-2017 at 10:52pm
The hard tank was already out of my Sport when I bought it, but I test drove a Sport with Python and hard tank. Really not good, no pump, fill it by opening the valve and driving forward, takes some driving time to fill, empty by gravity, also takes some time. All for 400 lbs. that takes up much of the trunk.

I use bags but put them on either side of the engine, not in the trunk. The trunk gives you HUGE storage space, I keep too much junk in there, but love it that it's all out of sight and still room for more.

I think you'll find the slalom wake good enough. A Ski from the same year is quite a bit better, but the Sport is very ski-able.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-10-2017 at 11:09pm
This is with driver and observer, less than 1/2 tank fuel, 32 mph, '98 Sport. Never sure if pictures help show wakes.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-12-2017 at 1:06pm
Thanks guys I appreciate all the info.
Search is on no real hurry so hopefully the right one will pop up.

By the way that means my '95 Signature Edition and the restored '85 2001 will be looking for a new home.
I tried to talk "Household 6" into keeping at least one but she said we're not the Benjamin's     Not sure what that was suppose to mean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blamey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-13-2017 at 11:48am
Originally posted by gun-driver gun-driver wrote:

Thanks guys I appreciate all the info.
Search is on no real hurry so hopefully the right one will pop up.

By the way that means my '95 Signature Edition and the restored '85 2001 will be looking for a new home.
I tried to talk "Household 6" into keeping at least one but she said we're not the Benjamin's     Not sure what that was suppose to mean


I don't understand. You have two boats now. Plan on getting one new boat. Why do you need to get rid of two?

2 + 1 - 1 = 2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-13-2017 at 3:30pm
Funny I used that same math with my wife, she held firm...Damn
Actually the '85 was suppose to go when I picked up the '95 but I just couldn't part with it so soon after the restoration. And truth be told I don't get the time to use them like I'd like, so they just take up garage space in the summer and cost me storage in the winter.
Maybe after I get my projects caught up around the house and garage I'll start looking for another project boat.
Until then the hunt for the sport is on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-13-2017 at 6:39pm
This should be you! From today, amazing September day on the water. Sport at around 38 mph.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-13-2017 at 8:12pm
^^^^ Now that's just wrong
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